Takeshima Lawsuit Postponed by Japanese Government, Responses

Takeshima disputed territory between Japan and Korea

The territorial disputes over Takeshima, or Dokdo as it is referred to in Korean, have been a long standing source of conflict between the Japanese and South Korean governments. Known in English as the Liancourt Rocks, it comprises two main islets and a series of thirty five smaller rocks which lie in the middle of excellent fishing stocks and supposedly large deposits of natural gas.

The question of whether Japan or Korea should have sovereignty to the islets is a consequence of the intertwined histories of the two nations during the early twentieth century, when Korea was made a Japanese colony between 1910 and 1945.

While today the Japanese government classifies the islets as part of Shimane prefecture, the South Korean administration classifies them as North Gyeongsang province on the south-eastern coast of Korea.

Here, Japanese netizens give their reactions to the government’s recent decision to postpone bringing the dispute to the International Court of Justice.

From 47 News:

Government Postpones International Lawsuit, ‘Signs of Repair’ with Korea Over the Takeshima Issue.

In relation to the issue of Korean territorial rights of Takeshima, in Shimane prefecture, on October 26, the Japanese government adjusted its approach, postponing submission of its independent lawsuit to the International Court of Justice (ICJ). In August, South Korean president Lee Myung-bak went ashore at Takeshima, and at first the Japanese government aimed to bring their case to the ICJ in mid-October. However, following this Japan modified its course, and according to government officials, ‘signs of improved relations’ are deemed to have appeared, such as a conference between the Japanese and South Korean foreign ministers.

Given the deepening of the rift with China over the Senkaku Islands in Okinawa prefecture, it seems that the government decided that ‘operations on two fronts’ [China and Korea], which might make Japan’s stance towards South Korea more militant, were inadvisable.

A senior official at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that ‘the intention to bring an independent lawsuit to the ICJ remains unchanged. We are waiting for the most effective time [to submit the lawsuit]‘.

Comments from Itai News:

Posted by   :[blank indicates comment left anonymously]

So that means Japan has given in to Korea. It’s still not too late, so why don’t we just get on our knees and apologise to Korea [for the war]?

Posted by   :

The greatest enemy in this issue is not Korea, it’s the politicians and government bureaucrats of Japan.

Posted by :

I wish the Democratic Party of Japan would just disappear, all their political actions are for Korea’s benefit. Make the details of the Takeshima issue, the economic trial, and the Korean-Chinese treaty public immediately!

Posted by _ :

If they’re not doing it now [bringing the lawsuit] then when are they gonna do it? You just going to keep extending it and extending it? What the hell value is there in a political party who can’t even protect the territory of their own country?

Posted by      :

Politics moves through money. Doesn’t matter if it’s through won or yuan, it still moves.

Posted by ぬこ :

I wish the Democratic Party would disappear.

Posted by   :

Just what I expected from the Democratic Party.

Posted by   :

I’m not particularly surprised. I’d be more shocked if they actually did it w

Posted by   :

If it’s not advisable to have operations on two fronts, then that means that they’re putting all their efforts into Senkaku, right? If not, then it’s unforgivable.

Posted by   :

If you can’t be bothered [to bring the lawsuit], don’t admit it publicly! This is why the government isn’t trusted.

Posted by 名無しさん :

Just the other day a group of Diet members went ashore…I just don’t understand in what way things have improved.

Posted by   :

Whether it’s the Democratic party or the Liberal Democratic Party, they deal with it in the same way. Our friend Abe [former Prime Minister of Japan] was also pro-Korea w No matter which you choose, they’re just doing America’s bidding anyway.

Posted by あ :

In order to save the world from the sense of stagnation that’s all around, we definitely need a third world war. And if that’s not possible, then the world’s only going to rot slowly.

Posted by   :

If you look 30 years down the line, it’s better to get out of Japan and take another nationality. This country is already over.

Posted by   :

I guess it’s only a question of time until the Emperor is presented to Korea by the Democratic party in order to apologise [for the war].

Posted by か :

Democratic Party: ‘Woof woof! I protected my master again! Woof woof!!’

Posted by 田中 :

It’s too much bother so just leave it. We don’t need a useless island.

Posted by あ :

At any rate the Democratic Party is going to fail epically at the next election, so before that they’re doing their best for the chinks and the gooks

Posted by :

I’m dubious whether those in the government have any Japanese blood.

What do you think?

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  • dk2020

    Dokdo/Takeshima is MINE! I claim it!~

    • teatable

      genius!!! just show that to a japanese or a korean and they’ll eat you!

    • lonetrey / Dan

      lol! That is exactly how I see it.

      I know it’s about territory and all, but there has to be a way to share it, or something not as stupid as what it is right now

      • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

        No, because it’s more a land grab/resource dispute. Neither sides gives a piss about that actual island, but the water, and any potential oil sources that comes with owning them.

        • lonetrey / Dan

          Well, the water is included with territory.

          But you reminded me about the resources too. I meant to include that in my post, but I couldn’t really find a way to say it without relating to the posted image.

        • jon775

          No, it’s mostly a pride thing. Like either side would just drop the issue if there weren’t any resources there.

    • PixelPulse

      One of the rocks looks like theyre giving the bird

  • elizabeth

    They could settle with one islet each, S Korea gets Dokdo and Japan gets Takeshima, so they could move on to real business.

    • http://twitter.com/RedHotRussia Augis Barkov

      It’s not about the islands – it’s about the water around those islands.

      According to international laws, the radius of 200 miles around the land mass (no matter how small) gives that country the right of exclusive economic zone.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone

      So, each country owning one islet in such proximity to each other doesn’t solve the problem.

      • helloworld

        I guess that Japan has more land mass and EEZ than S. Korea. I feel like it wouldn’t be a big deal economically for Japan to give up Takejima/Dokdo, or am I naive? Why couldn’t they just continue the “joint regime”? Because the nationalistic youths on the Internet at home are being impractical and urging their politicians to do something about those islands for ideological reasons, when it’s best left untouched, both politically and economically?

      • Ruaraidh

        No No No, this is such a common misconception. You cannot claim an EEZ from uninhabitable rocks such as these. The actual amount of sea you can claim from the Liancourt Rocks is 12 nautical miles.

        ‘Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their
        own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.’

      • jon775

        It’s not about resources. You imply that they can think rationally about this. It’s totally about pride.

    • Pat

      do you think this is really just about a few rocks? stop being so naive.

      • Alice S

        From the moment there’s more than 1 claim, there’s hell to come. Simple as that.

    • Ryoma

      And they could row over and have a drink together.

      • elizabeth

        Yeah, barbeque some fish, squid, prawns while sipping soju and sake. Maybe even invite Taiwanese fishermen over sometimes. Isn’t being friends better than enemies?

    • Alice S

      If that is the case then Fryland in Africa can claim it & they will get 1/3!

  • Serpico

    Now to wait for some group of pirates that will claim it’s theirs. And then? III World War.

  • http://twitter.com/FinalWorldAkira Akira

    Korea is cool in my book except for the stupid nationalist and stupid anti-Japan sentiment and the stupid ww2 blame.

    • henryezra

      Japanese is cool except for stupid nationalist and right wing and some apologist for ww2?

      • Alice S

        I’m totally not pro-Japp, but Empress Teimei was against her country going to war.

    • helloworld

      Ha ha, my sentiments exactly at both @Akira and @henryezra.

    • Alice S

      I like Korea, especially the anti-Jap part! And I like Koreans because they are nice, unlike Japps.

  • Sillian

    This dispute is god damn stupid. Politicians abuse it to their own benefit.

  • http://twitter.com/RedHotRussia Augis Barkov

    I liked the comment
    “It’s still not too late, so why don’t we just get on our knees and apologise to Korea [for the war]?”
    & think that Japanese should follow it!

    • helloworld

      They already did, though – several times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan You have to admit that all this conflict partially comes from S. Korea & China’s complete ignorance of Japan’s past apologies and reparations.

      • Sillian

        You forget to mention that some right-wing politicians have been trying to deny or retract apologetic remarks made in the past and that makes the issue afloat.

        • chucky3176

          “some right-wing politicians”? Stop making excuses for these people. It’s the majority of Japan that thinks this way, not just a few minority.

          • Sillian

            ‘Indifference’ would be the right word to describe the majority. You probably think it’s ‘silent acknowledgement’. Who knows.

          • helloworld

            Not true. The netouyo people represent ~1% of the entire Japanese Internet. http://d-tsuji.com/paper/r04/index.htm

        • helloworld

          What, everybody in the US should be held accountable to everything Bill O’Reilly says?

          • Sillian

            What, do you think Bill O’Reilly’s relevancy is on par with high-profile right-wing politicians in Japan? Did I say everybody in Japan should personally be held accountable to everything Japanese politicians say? Don’t try strawmen. I just pointed out that Korea has reasons to politically react to Japan because you tried to make Japan look innocent.

          • helloworld

            I’m not trying to make Japan look innocent. Japan was guilty, but they also *feel* guilty, which not many people know about. Plus, Japan is a democracy – you’ll always have crazy people supporting crazy ideals in a democracy, like all the birthers (constituting ~10% of US population or ~20% of the Republicans) and islamophobics in the US.

            Besides, you’ve heard of the anti-Islam film protests, right? Some people seriously think that the US government is responsible for the film, because if it isn’t censored, then it must be approved by the government, right? Right after the USG denied any involvement with the film and condemned the film, the extremist Hezbollah group said:

            ‘In a statement which made no reference to the killing of U.S. diplomats in Libya in apparent response to the film, Hezbollah said the film was an “immoral act which represents the highest degree of aggression against the highest human right … for respect of beliefs and sanctities”.

            ‘The film aimed to stir tensions and hatred between Muslims and Copts in Egypt and reflected “the true position of the American-Zionist alliance towards Islam and Muslims”, it said.

            ‘“In this context, the statements of official U.S. condemnation no longer fool anyone,” Hezbollah said, referring to official U.S. criticism of the film.’

            Do you know what this reminds me of? This reminds me of the crazy netouyo people saying that Japanese media/government is too corrupt because they say things that’s too pro-S. Korea/China (well I guess this means that the S. Korean and Japanese governments get along together, because the nationalistic youths in the S. Korean Internet thinks that their government is too pro-Japan or something), or of the Chinese/S. Korean people refusing to recognize that Japan has apologized and has made many reparations and generally has the flag/national anthem shame like the Germans, or of the conservative nutjobs in the US who thinks that *all* Muslims are ~evil~ or something. When people are too emotionally invested into believing something, confirmation bias kicks in full force and *never* tries to see if what they think is wrong or not, and this applies to everybody, whether they’re Japanese or S. Korean or Chinese or someone in the US.

            And those right-wing nutjobs sprouting bullshit does not represent Japan, just like how the shitty anti-Islam film doesn’t represent the US public or the US government, contrary to what the Chinese/S. Korean/Arabic media might say.

            For example, it turned out that the Benghazi people tried to *save* Ambassador Stevens http://bigstory.ap.org/article/libyan-witness-stevens-was-breathing-when-found and the guys who saved him had smartphones and recorded the moment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMSnyOMRXos However, you’ll see many negative comments about how Arabs are *savages* and how Islam is *evil* at the beginning of the comment because those people didn’t know what was happening in the video. Do those people represent the general US public?

    • Sillian

      I’m sure that comment was sarcastic.

    • henryezra

      The problem is, the majority of Japanese people is still felt that they didn’t do anything wrong at the war! Remember Nanjing Massacre? The Comfort women? IF USA didn’t nuked them, we probably still at war with them!

      • helloworld

        Completely false. I’m Chinese, and I lived in Japan in during 1992-2000-ish. I attended elementary school there. My teacher told me all about Japan’s WWII atrocities, about getting prisoners to dig their own graves, using them for target practice, all the rape, etc. If you actually lived in Japan, you’ll know that there are a lot of left-wing older generation teachers (who won’t be on the Internet, btw) who will teach that sort of stuff outside of the textbook.

        The claims against Japanese textbooks is also completely false – according to this study conducted by Stanford http://www.nippon.com/en/in-depth/a00703/ Japanese textbooks discourage nationalism, unlike Chinese or US textbooks. The Chinese/S. Korean/US media fixated on that one textbook THAT WAS USED IN LESS THAN 1% OF JAPANESE DISTRICTS. Most teachers completely rejected using that textbook.

        Japan also has flag and national anthem shame. The flag didn’t become official until 1999 because of its symbol. When it became official, a principal was arrested because he refused to raise it on his school. When I was in elementary school, we weren’t really taught the Kimigayo, and we were discouraged from singing it. You’ll see a lot of netouyo people complaining that they never learned how to sing the national anthem. When Japan’s women’s soccer team won the world cup, NHK cut off the part where the women sang the national anthem (and the netouyo people think that NHK is in S. Korean businessmen/government’s pockets or something).

        Japan was a PACIFIST nation before the Internet, when Japanese people discovered that they were HATED no matter what they do, because Chinese & S. Korean media don’t teach people that JAPANESE PEOPLE FEEL EXTREMELY GUILTY ABOUT WWII AND ITS GOVERNMENT HAD APOLOGIZED SEVERAL TIMES FOR PAST CRIMES and keep FIXATING ON WHATEVER IT IS THAT THE RIGHT WINGERS DO. Even now, the general feeling that anyone who raises the Japanese flag over their house is seen as someone who is too nationalistic.

        And sometimes, the netouyo people are right in some aspects. Does anyone know about S. Korea’s past war atrocities? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:South_Korean_war_crimes No, Japan was the only country that has committed any crimes, right?

        Not.

        • dim mak

          I had 1 year as an exchange student and 1 year internship in Japan as a Chinese-Canadian and I can vouch for this

          Virtually all schools DO teach about WW2 atrocities, and not in a spun or whitewashed way. The rumor they didn’t is based on that one revisionist textbook that was approved but never really used in more than a handful of schools. What people don’t know is that Japan’s teacher’s union is probably the most liberal force in the country, it makes organizations like the Hankyoreh or the Southern Media Group look like nationalists. For Koreans, it is based on as much truth as people who believe Korea claims Chinese culture. For Chinese, people on the forums regularly buy Japanese textbooks and translate them online, and every single time posters are surprised that they do mention war crimes quite clearly.

          Most Japanese do not think what happened in their imperial days was good, or that nothing happened at all. I am quite certain it’s the other way around. Things like comfort women were regularly debated on TV and in print when I was there, and there were certainly scholars and activists who believed Japan should come clean about it (although not many). I’ve tried talking to them about these things and 99% will shy away from it. It’s mostly a shame thing. That’s not to say they shouldn’t openly admit it, but it’s still a far cry from widespread, ill-intentioned denial.

          • helloworld

            *Nods enthusiastically* Thank you! It’s sad how misunderstood Japan is across the world, like Germany was once upon a time, I suppose. They just keep trying to make up for what they did and nobody notices them.

            Yes, the Japanese news sites are full of netouyo’s, but if you go to non-news communities like pixiv or something, then you start seeing more left-wings. I know people on pixiv, and they’re very good people who would condemn Japan’s WWII war atrocities. Besides, in some news articles the left-wingers manage to sneak into the discussion and say things like “the netouyo are destroying Japan”.

          • henryezra

            “Yes, the Japanese news sites are full of netouyo’s,..”
            There you go …

          • Germandude

            helloworld and dim mak

            Great comments from you guys, seriously. I like to read what you are stating. I have never been to Japan and don’t know many Japanese. WW 2 and what happened on the “Japan side” was never a topic for me when talking with Japanese people.
            What always confused me is that people in China, HKG and Singapore always mentioned to me: That Germany is a good country because it had apologized for the crimes it comitted. At the same time, Japan was always said to be glorifying their war heroes despite the rape, murder, torture etc. they’ve comitted. Without me ever been there nor in touch with Japanese history/culture a lot, I always felt very strange about hearing the Japanese would never admit their crimes in the WW 2 era.
            Glad to read from both of you that this seems not to be the general case. Thanks for the info!

          • Kai

            The reason why many Chinese and Koreans have it out for the Japanese versus the Germans is because the Germans have done a better job at maintaining a uniform and consistent government face about WW2, at least with regards to what news travels to the Chinese and Koreans. On the other hand, the Japanese have right-wing types in fairly high government positions who make statements that are considered or construed as rather controversial or insensitive (revisionist, denial, etc.). Damning all Japanese for the views of some is wrong, but the resentment doesn’t come from nothing.

            Acknowledging that, you also have a lot of Chinese and Koreans who are unreasonable when it comes to acknowledging that not all Japanese people share the controversial views of some and giving credit where its due. The whole thing is politicized, on both sides. It’s a shame.

          • chucky3176

            Germans don’t have shrines that says Germany was a victim of Western imperialism, and that what Germany did was for the good of Europe, and it doesn’t have a shrine that completely is missing concentration camps, and war crimes. And yet, here are people here who are attempting to excuse these things as rights of Japanese to worship their war deads. Unfuckingbelievable at how much Japan apologists and anime/AV lovers who think Japanese are so kawai, will go to the extent of excusing everything and anything to do with Japan.

          • henryezra

            research about Yasukuni Shrine would probably open your eyes a little bit. As a German, I want to ask you, did you considered Hitler as a National Hero? Well Hitler’s Japanese counterpart is still celebrated as heroes in Japan, located in Yasukuni Shrine!

          • Germandude

            I have heard of the Yasukuni shrine and that it’s honored. In my eyes, that’s plain wrong.
            And to answer your question: except some neo nazis and some old die hards, nobody considers Hitler a National Hero.

          • linette lee

            So the teachers in Japan public school refused to use that text book provided by the Japs gov’t. Good for them. At least most of them have conscience. But I don’t understand why the japanese refuse to discuss Nanjing Massacre whenever the topic is being brought up on internet forum. Most of the time they will brush it off. I guess like you said they are ashamed and don’t want to be reminded something so shameful. YEt you will still see some crazy right wing japs claiming Japan didn’t commit any war crime. The japs pubic media is not helping neither. Japan needs to work on their public relationship with foreign countries especially with Chinese. Like the Jap politician saying about NM. Something like this really hurt the japanese relationship with chinese.

            http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/world/asia/china-nanjing-row/index.html

            I know a lot of chinese are mad about what japs did in WWII and rumors of them denying it. But many chinese don’t hate japanese at the present days.

          • helloworld

            From the CNN article you mentioned:

            ‘But earlier this week, Takashi Kawamura, the mayor of Nagoya, told a visiting delegation from Nanjing that he believed only “conventional acts of combat” took place there, not the mass murders and rapes, ******China’s state-run Xinhua news agency reported.******’

            Did I mention how the Chinese media tends to fixate on the crazy right wingers? Here http://tokaicue.la.coocan.jp/koe_107.html is a left-wing Japanese blog criticizing the politician and other war crime-deniers and saying that, while this politician denies war crimes, the Japanese government does not (河村市長は苦し紛れに政府の見解と同じというが、政府見解は南京で非戦闘員の虐殺があったことを認めている). Here http://www.geocities.jp/torikai007/japanchina/nanking.html is another Japanese left-wing website that says that it’s important not to justify war crimes.

            Let me tell you about about an Indonesian person I met online. She absolutely hates the US, and she thinks that the US is the cause of all Islamophobia in the world, and that the US is a terrible, racist nation who suppresses all minorities. She wants the US to apologize to Phillipines for colonizing them (At least Japan apologized and made reparations, she said), and she could never forgive what the US did in the Vietnam War (We will never forget Agent Orange, she said). Where do you think she gets that kind of information? The Internet. Some people living in a rather racist part of the US complains about being discriminated online, and she reads this and assumes that everybody in the US is like this. She listens to all the BS the ultra-conservative nutjobs sprout off about how Islam is a dangerous religion and assumes that everybody in the US is so Islamophobic because their politicians (in high positions, mind you) say those kind of things. If you paid attention to the anti-Islam film protest in Indonesia, you’ll see people holding signs like “All Islamophobia comes from the US”. That’s the kind of thing those people believe in. Since they’re usually so emotionally invested in believing it, you try to convince them that the US isn’t like that AT ALL and they don’t listen.

            Same thing with the ultra-conservative politicians in the US giving the US such a bad name across the world. No matter what you say, they’ll keep believing in their BS because they’re so emotionally compromised about believing it. Apparently, before it was found out that some Libyans in Benghazi actually tried to *save* Ambassador Stevens http://bigstory.ap.org/article/libyan-witness-stevens-was-breathing-when-found a story that the Ambassador was raped and shot to death went around the conservative blogs and such. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/09/horror-lebanese-reports-us-ambassador-raped-before-his-murder/ Of course, if you bothered looking up the source of that blog, you’ll see that the news paper retracted the article because it turned out to be complete and utter BS. http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/sep/13/picket-report-murdered-us-ambassador-libya-reporte/#ixzz271J6mTo0 Still, those ultra-conservatives will doubt the authenticity of the report that the Ambassador was *saved*. If you look at the video where the Ambassador was saved http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMSnyOMRXos you’ll see those kinds of ultra-conservatives making comments like “just these men who says God is great when they wanna kill other people.”

            What can you expect the US to do? More speech won’t convince them, and restricting speech has the possibility of leading to an authoritarian state. What do you expect the Japanese people to do about their ultra-conservatives? Or the Muslim nations with *their* ultra-conservatives? Prosecute them? Kill them? Limit their free speech?

            No, all we can do is to recognize that there are good people everywhere and stop assuming that what people say on the Internet reflects the entire population of a country and end up *encouraging* those countries’ ultra-conservatives by angering citizens by falsely accusing them of things they didn’t do.

          • chucky3176

            Sounds like denial to me.

          • dim mak

            Oh c’mon chuck

            You sound like a smart, reasonable guy. Surely deep down you must know that Japan isn’t a monolith full of devil-people out to get you, that compared to the rest of the world, our three countries are probably quite similar, pride, ego, xenophobia and all.

            See, I like Korea and Japan even after the history and nationalism. So how about a little good faith? We have some on this side, and I’m pretty sure they do in Japan too

            Come give us a cuddle, hm? What’s it gonna take?

        • henryezra

          And yet somehow, this “regretful” new Japan, there are still those who visit Yasukuni Shrine. Question about Yasukuni Shrine/Temple. Let’s say that Yasukuni Shrine/Temple is for all soldiers that were heroes, why oh why, those people responsible for WW II in Japan (General, military figures) goes the same categories as heroes (because they were placed in Yasukuni Shrine)? You know, Hitler and co counterpart, as heroes in Japan, while you would never saw Hitler and high ranked Officer from Nazi celebrated as heroes in Germany. Why?

          • Guest

            Well the point is that Yasukuni shrine and its visitors only represent a small section of Japan. In my experience there is undoubtedly more people who find it shameful than there are proud of it.

            It’s not really like having a statue of Hitler in Germany either. The nationalism is internalized. There’s like 20 war criminals out of like 2 million “souls”. If it was what you say, they would’ve built a different shrine specifically for the war criminals the way they do for their shoguns and stuff. Most visitors don’t go to justify or glorify the past, or dance on people’s graves. It’s partially veneration, like gravesweeping is for Chinese people. Misguided and offensive, but not exactly the gloating we-hate-you intent either.

            Plus, Yasukuni isn’t even popular compared to real shrines. It has no central deity or network of sibling shrines like the real ones do. It’s more like the last remaining holdout from the days of state Shinto, left there solely to make a political statement. Judging by the interactions I had with the locals, that statement does not seem to be very popular.

            And let me be clear, I still think it’s a symbol of militarism and imperialism and should be torn down.

          • dim mak

            ^ my post
            Fucking disqus

        • chucky3176

          “I lived in Japan in during 1992-2000-ish”

          There’s your problem.

          Japan is moving hard to the right, and they’ve reversed course. What you just said is totally irrelevant today.

          • helloworld

            Plenty of left-wingers still exist in the country. They’re just afraid to comment on 2ch, Yahoo, etc. because those websites are full of right-wingers who will shoot them down as soon as they say anything “anti-Japanese”. I see plenty of left-wingers on pixiv, blogs, etc.

            And you know what? Japan is moving to the right partially because all their years of trying to make up for what they didn’t pay off. You hear reports about the S. Koreans cutting off their fingers in protest of the approval of that one ultra-right-wing textbook that practically no Japanese school uses, and even *I* get pissed off that Japan gets so hated even though so many people in that country try to make up for it.

          • chucky3176

            Then do tell me how is it that the right wing politicians are still able to rule the country without strong Japanese public support via the votes? If what everyone is claiming is true, and it’s the tiny minority of the Japanese think like this, wouldn’t it make sense that there would be some sort of consequences for these elected officials, forcing them to act in line with the rest of the world when it comes to history of WWII in Asia? Not only that, wouldn’t those type of people get voted out of office or laughed out of office? But not in Japan. How is it that abominable shrines like Yasukuni even exist if there wasn’t a broad support for what the shrine claims?

          • dim mak

            Well that’s pretty simple
            Because for them it’s not an issue important enough to change votes or kick out politicians over
            In fact I’m pretty sure they’re leaning right cus they’re afraid of China right now, not historical issues

            Don’t get me wrong, people like Abe and Noda and Tamogami and Ishihara should be ashamed of denying comfort women and worse

            But it should be obvious to anyone that lives there for a bit that the average Japanese isn’t your far right revisionist monster, it’s not even a large minority

            What that means is there’s room for friendship, or at least mutual understanding
            Why not take it

          • chucky3176

            Or more likely, they don’t kick them out because they agree with them, and think they’re doing a good job. They may not say outwardly what they’re truly thinking, but I’m sure those elected officials speak for the average Japanese. You are claiming Japanese apathy (which I don’t buy), but even if that’s true, that’s still just as bad and it doesn’t reflect well on their society.

          • dim mak

            That’s entirely possible to a point, there are definitely people who will agree with the far right. And they do have a national ego like the rest of us

            But again in my experience it’s not a large percentage and most Japanese are well, pretty decent people

            They vote conservative for the same reasons people vote conservative elsewhere, security, economy, etc. Revisionism isn’t exactly a campaign issue over there
            Like if somebody said the Nanjing massacre wasn’t real, I’m quite sure most of them would disagree

            Of course you don’t have to believe me if you don’t want, but I have no reason to lie about this

            About apathy – democratic countries tend to grow more partisan over time but there is a pervasive sense of disillusionment in Japan, especially with the younger people. It’s the same reason they keep switching prime ministers, so I don’t think it’s too far fetched
            Talk to ten Japanese and try to guess which party they vote for… it’s pretty vague

            It’s true that apathy in the face of wrongdoing is morally unjustified and the onus is on them to come clean about it as a nation

            Yet it’s hardly indicative or as evil as denial, or even implied denial

            I mean all the stuff you assume is based on bad faith
            Which is justified vs an adversary.

            But is Japan really the enemy you imagine…? Think about it

          • chucky3176

            “Revisionism isn’t exactly a campaign issue over there”

            So why wouldn’t it be a campaign issue if Japan’s education system has done its job in telling the truth, as everyone here is claiming?

            “Like if somebody said the Nanjing massacre wasn’t real, I’m quite sure most of them would disagree”

            I agree. I’m quite sure many of them will say they know nothing about it, or some will even say it was the out of control Korean troops who did it (Japanese have always traditionally blamed all its problems on Koreans).

          • besudesu

            The vast majority of historians in Japan do not support what most reasonable people see as ridiculous revisionist histories of the early twentieth century. Nor do most Japanese people. But of course, right-wing discourse does exist in Japan, and it is visible. It is not, however, a majority discourse. It’s easy to hear the eccentrics shouting above everyone else because they stand out, but don’t forget the quiet masses.

            I agree, however, that the Japanese education system needs to work harder to accurately portray the state of Japan and its empire prior to 1945. But the same thing might be said about the Korean education system. You have to remember that history is not black and white, even if its narration is often monochrome.

          • chucky3176

            “The vast majority of historians in Japan do not support what most
            reasonable people see as ridiculous revisionist histories of the early
            twentieth century.”

            And this conclusion is based on? We’ve recently had Japanese government protesting to the Untied States, the comfort women memorial located in the US, because they say, the comfort women were just whores. So far, everything Japan has done, has gone against what you’re claiming. At some point, somebody needs to give me some proof that what the Japan government are doing is supposedly going against the opinion of vast majority of Japanese.

            And no, personal anicdotes aren’t good proof.

          • besudesu

            Where were the ‘personal anicdotes [sic]‘ in what I said, Chucky? The statement at the beginning of my reply to you is also hardly a conclusion. You’re going to have to think very logically if you intend to advance such extreme views.

            You have to ask yourself, do I, like everyone else, have an interest in improving the situation? Or am I simply content to respond as an extremist to other extremists?

          • dim mak

            Oh come on, now it’s getting ridiculous

            It’s true they still blame Koreans for a lot of things. I’ve seen them blame “overseas Koreans” for fomenting anti-Japan sentiments (over whaling for example), but they’re not fucking idiots who see Koreans behind every tree

            Every time the news covers some protest in China they give the Nanjing massacre as background info, even a denialist watching must at least be aware of it, let alone the average person

            I agree with all the stuff you said about Yasukuni, except the part where they teach the same stuff in school. That’s like… the opposite of the truth

            They don’t actively call out or tear down those politicians because of pride, ego, indifference, and yes, a minority agree with them. East Asia is not America. You know we don’t open up about shameful subjects like they do. The Japanese don’t want to insult, shame, betray or divide their own country. A Korean of all people should understand this. If there was a controversial issue that put your national face on the line in front of the whole world, would Korea just cave in, even if you were wrong? Are you sure? And if Japan and China was watching, ready to savor your every humiliation?

            Ego is a real thing. It’s the same reason not a single public figure out of 1.4 billion Chinese has ever come out to say something about certain …ethnic problems in Tibet. Pride. Ethnic unity. It’s not because everybody is clueless or thinks the government is right. Even the most nationalistic at least suspect something just by being accused of it by foreigners.

            These are all terrible reasons for not coming clean/standing against whitewashing, btw

            But they demonstrate that most Japanese aren’t out to rewrite history or hate us, these are just normal folk who need their fears allayed over time
            Show them you’re wary but not entirely hostile, and doors open up, progress is made

            I am not an apologist for Japan, this is just the truth

            I’ve spent time there convincing Japanese that China wasn’t a boogeyman ready to invade them, cuz we’re not

            When somebody says the bangzi are just copycats claiming all our stuff, I tell them that’s a load of shit made up by a few Taiwanese newspapers, cuz it was
            When someone says the Japs are all this or that and our mortal enemies until the end of time, I tell them what I told you, based on real experiences

            If I had assumed bad faith all those people would still be raging over stereotypes and exaggerations

            What’s the point?

          • dim mak

            Dude, is this really the awful one sidedness you believe in

            …public opinion poll data consistently shows that a small majority of the Japanese public is in favour of compensation and ‘proper apologies’ to groups like the comfort women. A 1993 poll in the
            wake of Hosokawa’s ‘aggressive war’ comments (and just a month after the government’s 4 August 1993 apology to the ‘comfort women’) revealed that 55 per cent said additional financial compensation was ‘necessary’ or ‘necessary to some extent’ to Asian victims, while 29 per cent said it was ‘not necessary’ or ‘not particularly necessary’ (Yoshida 1995:3). And in a 1997 opinion poll specifically about the ‘comfort women’ issue, 50.7 per cent said ‘[politicians have] made many thoughtless remarks and should apologize properly to Asian countries and the victims’.

            http://books.google.ca/books?id=tZVPTE424X4C Page 196

            ————–

            Asahi Newspaper featured an article entitled “War Compensation Questioned” in the November 14, 1993 morning issue, reporting the results of an opinion poll where 51% of the respondents said “yes” and 37% said “no” to the question of whether the government should provide compensation.

            Also, on the issue of military comfort women, with the exception of men of over 60 years of age, who tended to answer “no” rather than “yes,” a majority in all age groups supported compensation. This was particularly evident among the younger generations. 72% of those from 20 to 24 years of age said “yes,” while only 21% of them said “no.” Thus, it is members of the war generation, who have been pillars of postwar society, who are adverse to war compensation, a sentiment quite apart from that of the younger generations.

            http://www.k2.dion.ne.jp/~rur55/E/epage4.htm

            —————

            2005

            http://articles.latimes.com/2005/jun/06/world/fg-koizumi6

            An opinion poll released last week showed nearly three in five Japanese opposed Koizumi making another Yasukuni visit, a significant change from the evenly divided views long shown by surveys on the subject.

            ———————-

            2006

            51% oppose for Yasukuni visit, 33% for

            http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20060928a1.html

            —————————-

            A 2007 survey from FujiTV:
            http://www.fujitv.co.jp/b_hp/2001/chousa/2007/070408.html

            Question 3: Has Japan apologized sufficiently for the issue of comfort women?

            Yes:37.2%
            No:43.8%
            Other/Dunno: 19%

            Question 4: Should Prime Minister Abe visit Yasukuni shrine?

            Yes: 34.4%
            No: 53%
            Other/Dunno: 12.6%

            ——————-

            2007

            In a recent opinion poll, 60 percent of the Japanese public indicated that they are opposed to Koizumi’s Yasukuni visits, with only 20 percent supporting them. Furthermore, an overwhelming 82 percent of those surveyed said that the next prime minister should not visit Yasukuni, while only 10 percent supported the continued homage (Asahi Shimbun, July 25).

            http://www.jamestown.org/programs/chinabrief/single/?tx_ttnewstt_news=3969&tx_ttnewsbackPid=196&no_cache=1

            ———————-

            http://www.mansfieldfdn.org/backup/polls/2006/poll-06-6.htm

            And even when they disagree, look at the reasons

            http://www.mansfieldfdn.org/backup/polls/2006/poll-06-3.htm

            And so on

            Notice how the questions aren’t “Do you think comfort women are a real thing?” but already establishes that they are? That’s because it’s the default opinion, denialists are the exception.

            ———————

            That’s not war, that’s just some guy posturing over your island dispute. It hasn’t even happened yet. China choked off rare earths to Japan for our island dispute, we’re not at war. If they stop exports to such an extent that it actually affects your overall economy, I’ll paypal you $100. And that’s Nikkei. Even Japanese don’t take Sankei seriously except when they need a booster shot of nationalism.

            Alright, I’m goin to bed

          • chucky3176

            It’s a sign of desperation when people start to post old irrelevant opinion polls, especially after Japan has been very busy lately nullifying what little contrition they made over the last couple of decades. And especially after the fact when most of the Japanese politicians are spewing words that they think will help buy them votes (after all, Japanese politicians are no different from most other politicians in the world who play their populist cards). If what you are saying are correct, then what they’re doing should be political suicides. When politicians in a democratic country win, it’s usually because they have a huge and a significant backing by the public who vote these guys in. And this is much more accurate than what some vague poll of twenty years ago when most Japanese could care less about Korea or Korean issues, since they didn’t think much about throwing some old bones to satisfy a starving dog so that it doesn’t get angry and bark. Even 25% of Japanese don’t even know Japan annexed Korea in 1905. After twenty years of lost decades, now that has all changed, and South Korea has become a threat to Japan. After all, if the country of Papua New Guinea is pissed off at Korea, would any Korean really care?
            Just throw them a few bones and make them shut up and stop whining, I’m sure most wouldn’t mind. But what happens when Papua New Guinea becomes an economic threat? That’s a different ball game altogether now. The funny thing is now, both Korea and Japan are meeting at the half way mark. What I mean is that more and more Koreans are getting apathetic about Japan, while more and more Japanese are actually getting more paranoid and starting to think more and more about Korea as a threat to Japan. Is this what one can call as equal relationship?

          • dim mak

            Jesus chuck, I understand ethnic tensions but this is just getting to the point of irrationality

            Even if they find you threatening, they understood the issues 6-7 years ago so why wouldn’t they now? That makes no sense

            South Korea has never been seen as a real threat in Japan
            Every poll has put North Korea on top of that list, only recently did China sorta pass it. They dislike South Korea, they don’t find you crazy or aggressive enough to be a strategic threat. If they’re afraid of your economy how do you think they feel about China’s?

            How do you square that when their politicians say something stupid they’re representing the whole country, but when they apologize it’s only personal? There’s been instances of both

            You sound pretty rational in the comments you make around here, I dunno why you’re so stubborn on this

            Do you think we’re all here to deceive you on behalf of Japan or something

            Because I’m usually critical of Japan, and certainly not an “anime-lover”. But the world is more nuanced and we all know it

            If you’re going looking for right wingers and internet comments, then yeah Japan is gonna seem like your worst enemy
            It’s like the ppl on 2ch who translate comments and angry OP-eds from Chinese portals and think we’re out to take over their country

            Shit is ridiculous

            If you don’t wanna do a 180 on your beliefs, well that’s fine I get it

            But at least consider the stuff I’ve said

          • chucky3176

            I don’t see why you think Korea is the problem here. It is Japan who has been flying off the handle just because the Korean president visited the rock island.. It is Japan that has daily anti Korean protests in their cities. The ones burning flags are the Japanese who burn Korean flags. It is Japan threatening Korea with all kinds of actions that have yet to materialize. It is Japan that is demanding Korea to return the island to Japan. It is Japan that are debating military actions in their media. It is Japanese media that have been uttering nationalist slants. The Koreans on the other side are just scratching their heads and saying “WTF, Japan?”. We’re not doing anything other then few snipes at Japan here and there. So why are you thinking Korea is the problem here? For the most part, many young Koreans are now becoming apathetic with Japan – with an attitude of who cares what they do or think? We don’t like them, but they don’t matter as a country,that much anymore anyway…

          • helloworld

            You know, when the Arab Spring started, Joe Biden (the Vice President, in case you didn’t know) said that Mubarak wasn’t really a dictator. http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2011/0127/Joe-Biden-says-Egypt-s-Mubarak-no-dictator-he-shouldn-t-step-down Hillary Clinton made a comment saying that Egypt was stable (she retracted that statement, though). http://www.examiner.com/article/mtp-hillary-clinton-won-t-repeat-egyptian-government-is-stable-comment-video You’ll hear some people in the US saying that the only way to deal with all those fundamentalist Muslim countries, in response to all the anti-Islam film protests, is to plant a dictator who would impose secular values in those countries, and that all the evil sh** Mubarak did couldn’t be helped because he was prosecuting the crazy fundamental Islamists when he suppressed free speech, right to assembly, freedom of the press, etc, and he was necessary to achieve peace for Israel or whatever.

            These are the kind of information that fuels the anti-American sentiments in the Arab/Southeast Asian world. Does that mean that most people in the US think that Mubarak was *not* a dictator? That the Arab Spring was bad? No. It just means that there is a chunk of people in the US who think that way, BUT THEY DON’T REPRESENT THE ENTIRE NATION. There’s also a good chunk of people who don’t think that way.

            “How is it that abominable shrines like Yasukuni even exist if there wasn’t a broad support for what the shrine claims?”

            There’s your anti-Japanese bias right there. Let me quote from Wikipedia:

            ‘Yasukuni Shrine (靖国神社 or 靖國神社 Yasukuni Jinja?) is a Shinto shrine located in Chiyoda, Tokyo, Japan. It is dedicated to the soldiers and others who died fighting on behalf of the Emperor of Japan.[1] Currently, its Symbolic Registry of Divinities lists the names of over 2,466,000 enshrined men and women whose lives were dedicated to the service of Imperial Japan, particularly to those killed in wartime….

            ‘According to a memorandum released in 2006 by Imperial Household Agency Grand Steward Tomohiko Tomita, the presence of enshrined Class-A war criminals (such as Hideki Tōjō) at Yasukuni was the reason Emperor Hirohito refused to visit the shrine from 1978 until his death in 1989.[45][46] Since the enshrinements, there have been calls from some groups of people to remove the war criminals from Yasukuni Shrine. Shrine officials have stated that unlike traditional Shinto shrines, all enshrined kami are immediately combined and inseparable, and therefore impossible to “remove”.[47] There has been no move to separate the enshrinements.”…

            ‘One of the central controversies of the shrine is the personal visits by Japanese politicians.[48] There have been many visits including numerous politicians, and heads of state including several prime ministers. Many in the international and Asian community see this as support for or complicity with Japanese nationalism, and denial of the events of World War II.[47] The politicians themselves see this as paying respect to the over two million war dead of Japan from several wars, done on personal time. In 2005, the President of Palau,Tommy Remengesau, stated that praying for all people is right.[49]‘

            Just because Japanese people go to that shrine doesn’t mean that they approve of what happened in WWII – no, they’re just paying respects to the Japanese soldiers who died in the war. There are people who think that war criminals shouldn’t be part of that shrine, like EMPEROR HIROHITO, for example.

            I could say that South Korea is becoming crazier from all the Christians who want to replace evolution with intelligent design or something. Do they constitute a sizable chunk of the S. Korean population, enough to draw attention? Yes. Do they represent the entire S. Korean country? No.

            I like S. Korea just fine, in fact the general feeling in Japan back when I lived there was that S. Korea was a cool country. BoA was popular, I loved her, and unlike China S. Korea is a democratic, developed nation like Japan.

            Then protests happen over a textbook that nearly no school uses, and they always think that Japan is this evil, war-crime-denying country who doesn’t feel guilty about what happened at all, and THAT’S COMPLETELY FALSE. Honestly? I want S. Korea, Japan, and China to get along well together. Now, it seems too late because of all the biased nationalists on all sides, and I’m just pissed that this partially happened because people refused to see that Japan isn’t as horrible a country as they think and partially fueled the right-wingers to gain ground in Japan and turned all the left-wingers into “売国” (someone who sells out the country).

          • chucky3176

            I doubt you even visited Yasukuni Jinja. It’s a Shinto shrine and a war memorial, which completely white washes out the fact that it was Japan who started the war, and it was Japan who started the Imperial invasions. Otherwise you wouldn’t try to excuse this abomination. It’s not just another war memorial. If it was, then there wouldn’t be a problem. For instance, the shrine plays a movie which shows the glorious Japan invading its Asian neighbors to protect Asia from Western colonialism under the East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. The shrine blames the West for the war, completely absolving Japan. And it attempts to show Japan as the victim of the war.

            I’ve been to Yasukuni Jinja, It was disgusting to see all the complete historic revisionism that Japan attempts to pedal. It’s no ordinary war shrine, as the Japan apologists always falsely try to claim. What Yasukuni Jinja shows the world, is what they teach in their schools. If so many ordinary Japanese really do not agree with these views, why aren’t there any demands to take them down? Why do we never hear about those Japanese who speak out against historic revisionism based on nationalism, as we see in America, when politicians say stupid things sometimes – forcing them to apologize and forcing them to take back what they say? Because they’re the silent majority? I highly doubt it.

          • helloworld

            Once again, you are absolutely WRONG. I’ve already written elsewhere in this thread the Japanese education DOESN’T whitewash history. http://www.nippon.com/en/in-depth/a00703/

            You visit the shrine to honor the ~2.5 million Japanese soldiers who died for their country, of whom ~1100 soldiers were convicted of war crimes. The government had tried to remove the guilty soldiers from the shrine before, but the shrine apparently can’t for religious reasons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Yasukuni_Shrine You don’t visit the shrine to swallow propaganda in the museum.

            I know, I know, there was a huge controversy over Koizumi visiting the shrine, but did you know that Koizumi visited the shrine NOT to worship Japanese imperialism, but to pray that Japan never repeats its past mistakes?

            わが国は明後8月15日に、56回目の終戦記念日を迎えます。21世紀の初頭にあって先の大戦を回顧するとき、私は、粛然たる思いがこみ上げるのを抑えることができません。この大戦で、日本は、わが国民を含め世界の多くの人々に対して、大きな惨禍をもたらしました。とりわけ、アジア近隣諸国に対しては、過去の一時期、誤った国策にもとづく植民地支配と侵略を行い、計り知れぬ惨害と苦痛を強いたのです。それはいまだに、この地の多くの人々の間に、癒しがたい傷痕となって残っています。

            My country will greet the 56th anniversary of the end of the war the day after tomorrow, on August 15th. When I reflect upon the last world war at the beginning of the 21st century, I cannot prevent my solemn thoughts from filling my heart. In this world war, Japan broght great calamity upon many people in the world, including Japanese citizens. (Japan) especially compelled immesurable havoc and agony upon neighboring countries in Asia in the past, based upon mistaken national policty to colonize and invade. This stil remains as a scar that is difficult to heal for many people on this land.

            私はここに、こうしたわが国の悔恨の歴史を虚心に受け止め、戦争犠牲者の方々すべてに対し、深い反省とともに、謹んで哀悼の意を捧げたいと思います。

            I wish to impartially accept my country’s deeply regrettable actions (direct translation: something you highly feel deplorable/mournful about), and respectfully offer condolences and deep apologies to all the war victims.

            私は、二度とわが国が戦争への道を歩むことがあってはならないと考えています。私は、あの困難な時代に祖国の未来を信じて戦陣(せんじん=戦いのための陣営)に散っていった方々の御霊(みたま)の前で、今日の日本の平和と繁栄が、その尊い犠牲の上に築かれていることに改めて思いをいたし、年ごとに平和への誓いを新たにしてまいりました。私は、このような私の信念を十分説明すれば、わが国民や近隣諸国の方々にも必ず理解を得られるものと考え、総理就任後も、8月15日に靖国参拝を行いたい旨を表明してきました。

            I believe that my country should never walk the path toward war ever again. I have renewed my annual vow for peace before the souls that scattered upon the battlefield while believing in my country’s future back in those difficult times, while renewing my mindfulness that Japan’s peace and prosperity today is built upon the hallowed victims. I believe that if I adequately explain my conviction, I will acquire the understanding of my people and the gentlemen and women (note: 方々 is a polite form for “people”) in neighboring countries that I wish to continue paying homage at Yasukuni Shrine even after my role as the Prime Minister.

            --中韓が反発しているのがA級戦犯です。戦争責任をどう考えるか

            –The Chinese and S. Koreans are protesting against the A class war criminals. Your opinion on responsibilities for the war? (Note: this is *14* people ouf of the ~2.5 million people honored in the shrine)

            「数多くの戦没者に哀悼の誠をささげようと思っていた。特別にA級戦犯とか特定の個人にお参りしたわけではございません」

            “I wished to offer condolences for the majority of the fallen soldiers. I have not specifically visited the shrine for the A class war criminals.”

            See more here: http://tamutamu2011.kuronowish.com/koizumu813.htm

            You’ll also see many apologies similar to this from the 60′s~now, btw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

            Did the Chinese/Korean media report any of these, to a significant degree so that the news will reach the general public? No. Western media just repeated whatever the Chinese/Korean media said, too, because US and the UK sided against Japan in WWII. That’s why all those protests happened in S. Korea and China, saying that Japan was an evil, ~evil~ country, despite all the evidence to the contrary, just like all those Islamists in the Middle East/North Africa thinking that the US is a horrible, horrible country that spreads anti-Islam propaganda across the world and that the USG is responsible for that one obscure anti-Islam film.

          • chucky3176

            Those apologies were mostly made by individual Japanese politicians who represented themselves. They mean hill of beans because their qualification is always “I am apologizing as an individual Japanese citizen”. You mention the list of all the Japanese apologies. How about being a bit more balanced, and list all the non-apologies by the individual Japanese politicians who have taken back the apologies by denying everything and saying they have nothing to apologize for? Don’t they count too? And then we have two faced liars like Abe who years ago apologized for the Comfort women, but now he says they were just whores and he didn’t really mean it. If you really want to apologize, then don’t do so with your fingers crossed.

            And finally, you site Yasukuni Jinja can’t change its Shinto rules which says once you’re enshrined, you cannot be removed. That is Japanese excuse, but the question begs to be asked, why were they (the war criminals) enshrined in the first place after they were hung in the gallows? I’ve just had enough of these excuses.

            Look at these signs.

            http://www.links.net/vita/trip/japan/spirit/yasukuni/pix/flyers.lg.jpg

            The war criminals is just one problem out of many with the shrine. The biggest problem with the shrine is the decidedly the right wing tone of the theme, and the glorification of Japanese imperialism in Asia, as an attempt by Japan to help Asian countries against the evil West. That is what this shrine is pedaling. And god, I can’t believe I’m arguing this with the Japanese apologist anime lovers. Koizumi and other Japanese politicians visited the shrine, not because they felt they wanted to make an anti war statement, but because they were pressured by the right wing forces in Japan who are a considerable force in Japan. If these politicians want to get elected, they need the right wing support. Please don’t give me the bull crap that they want to make an anti war protest. LOL.. hillarious.

          • helloworld

            Seriously? You got the freaking Prime Minister to apologize (and not just one, by the way), and that’s still not enough for you? And now you’re calling me an *apologist*?

            If you actually watch Japanese entertainment, you’ll see many themes along the lines of “I used to be bad but now I’m good,” and their media hardly encourages aggressive, nationalistic values.

            And you’re accusing Koizumi of needing to please the right-wingers? *Are you insane?* He wasn’t exactly secretive about his anti-war stance, yet he was a very popular Prime Minister.

            About the comfort women, from Wikipedia:

            ‘About the comfort women, from Wikipedia:In 1965, the Japanese government awarded $364 million to the Korean government for all war damages, including the injury done to comfort women.[52] In 1994, the Japanese government set up the Asian Women’s Fund to distribute additional compensation to South Korea, the Philippines, Taiwan, the Netherlands, and Indonesia. [53] Each survivor was provided with a signed apology from the then prime minister Tomiichi Murayama, stating “As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.”[54] The fund was dissolved on March 31, 2007.[55]

            ‘Three Korean women filed suit in Japan in December, 1991, around the time of the 50th anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack, demanding compensation for forced prostitution. They introduced documents found by history Professor Yoshiaki Yoshida that had been stored at the Japanese Defense Agency since their return to Japan by United States troops in 1958.[56] Subsequently, on January 14, 1992, Japanese Chief Government Spokesman Koichi Kato issued an official apology saying “We cannot deny that the former Japanese army played a role” in abducting and detaining the “comfort girls, ” and “We would like to express our apologies and contrition”.[57][56][58] Three days later on January 17, 1992 at a dinner given by South Korean President Roh Tae Woo, the Japanese Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa told his host: ” We Japanese should first and foremost recall the truth of that tragic period when Japanese actions inflicted suffering and sorrow upon your people. We should never forget our feelings of remorse over this. As Prime Minister of Japan, I would like to declare anew my remorse at these deeds and tender my apology to the people of the Republic of Korea.” and apologized again the following day in a speech before South Korea’s National Assembly.[59][60] On April 28, 1998, the Japanese court ruled that the Government must compensate the women and awarded them US$2,300 ($3,280 in 2012) each.[61]‘

            Have I mentioned how ridiculously anti-Japanese you are?

            I told you, just because someone visits that shrine or if that shrine has questionable materials DOESN’T MEAN THAT YOU VISIT IT TO GLORIFY IMPERIAL JAPAN OR SOMETHING. For most people, it’s just a place to pay respects to those who died in war. Have you bothered asking Japanese people why they were there when you visited? Maybe then you’ll finally see that Japan was a PACIFIST NATION.

            I’m not denying that Japan is currently moving to the right, but to be honest? I know what I felt when I saw all the anti-Islam film protests, and I think that the Japanese people felt the exact same thing when they saw Chinese/S. Korean cutting off their fingers/rioting to protest that one textbook or about Koizumi visiting the shrine for perfectly peaceful reasons, saying how Japan never apologized and never made any reparations and denies history WHEN THEY DON’T. I’d feel extremely pissed, too, to be honest.

            You know what? I’m done with you. Your kind of people are the reason why Japan hates S. Korea.

          • chucky3176

            Are you seriously f*cking joking me? $2000 compensation set up, not officially in the name of the Japanese government, but by private volunteers? That’s not an official redress, that’s just throwing $2000 per person, at a problem, and hoping the problem will go away. lol.. $2000, big chunk of change there… lol.

            It’s just an insult, just like the forced laborers who sued for 20 years to get their back wages back, and were awarded $1 in the end, last year.

            Not only that, I don’t know where you’re getting that Koreans rioted against Japan. And OK, several Koreans cut off their fingers a few years back, but that’s their loss.

            So is this how Japan says they’re sorry? By claiming territories that they forcibly annexed in 1905?

            http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/korean-objections-to-japans-1905-claim.html

            If Japan was really apologizing, they shouldn’t be demanding back territories that they took during their Imperial era. Why Japan has to wake the sleeping dog, instead of just letting it go? Did Germany get back all her territories after WWII? She lost a big chunk of their lands, yet no Germans cried and whined to get them back. Why?

            Because of only one answer.

            They are not sorry at all. It’s all for a show. We don’t need anymore of the apologies. Let’s just ignore each other, stay away
            from each other, and I actually agree with 24% of the Japanese who want to end the diplomatic relationship. That’s a good ideal.

            Yes, I’m done with you too.

          • chucky3176

            90% of Japanese polled (out of 7000 respondents) carried out by Nihon Gaiza, says the Japan shouldn’t forgive the fact that Korea is occupying the island. Here are the percentage breakdowns of responses that Japanese want from their government.

            http://media.daum.net/issue/newsview?newsId=20120815173817242&issueId=276

            33% want economic sanctions.
            22.4% want expelling of S.Korea ambassador
            only 2.3% say Japan should not do anything to make things worse.

            All those meaningless apologies and throwing pennies at people’s faces, have all been canceled out by Japanese actions like claiming their former colonial territories, and numerous comments by Japanese politicians, Japanese netizens, who say the comfort women were whores, and that there is no proof that they were victims. If one makes a true apology, none of these would happen, and we could move on. But Japan, by constantly picking on the scab when it’s about to heal, is not exactly blameless. You’re full of shit.

          • besudesu

            ‘Nihon Gaiza’ doesn’t exist. Even the Korean article you link to says ‘Nihon Keizai Shimbun’. The original Japanese article is here: http://www.nikkei.com/news/survey/vote/result/?uah=DF100820128643.

            Although the responses also make me uncomfortable, there are a few things I’d like to point out. Firstly, I think the Korean article contains a misinterpretation. I don’t think the Japanese article asks whether 2MB’s day trip was ‘unforgivable’. It asks whether or not it should be ‘allowed.’ There’s quite an emotional difference there. Furthermore, that same survey asks whether or not the people who answered the questionnaire supported the Noda government. The overwhelming majority replied that they did not. So the results of this poll just tell us that the respondents are not actually satisfied with anything.

            I think that some of the answers are certainly disappointing, and it’s good to point them out in a way. They’re antagonistic to Koreans who feel strongly about this, and to anyone who has any kind of common sense.

            But think about it. Why did 2MB go to Dokdo? Did he have pressing business on the rocks? Or is it because it’s an election year, and he’s trying to drum up nationalist support?

            And why was the survey carried out in the first place? Japanese newspaper makes survey that stirs up animosity, knowing that a Korean newspaper will report it to stir up even more animosity. How curious! This suggests to me that the only winner in this situation is the media. Looks like nationalism sells. Now all we need are some scantily-clad models on Dodko/Takeshima, and someone will be laughing all the way to the bank.

          • chucky3176

            ” Why did 2MB go to Dokdo?”

            Only he knows what the answer is, but here is my guess. The timing of his visit coincides with Korea’s independence day from Japan. Lee has been known as a pro-Japan president, and coming up to the end of his presidential term, he was utterly frustrated with Japan’s strengthening actions that claims the islet as Japanese. After all his coaxing Japan to try to stop the claims, it wasn’t working out. He was frustrated. He wanted to make a point to Japan, Dokdo is Korean. Just like I can visit Busan since it’s part of Korea, there’s no reason why I can’t visit Dokdo to celebrate the independence day. Remember, Japan first annexed this island, then annexed the entire Korea shortly after. So Dokdo plays a vital role on the Independence day. It’s the symbolism of Japanese colonial rule, that makes Koreans so sensitive towards the island. To Koreans, if Korea is forced to give up the island, it will be 1905 all over again – simply unacceptable. If Japan had any senses, and really feel they did wrong against Korea, they would drop their useless claims. Korea will never give up the island. Stop lip servicing apologies meaninglessly then start demanding their former colonial territories back, do something concrete for a change.

        • henryezra

          When the emperor denounced as a mere human being, not a Son of Sun God, people all Japan cried and felt disgrace.

          That’s majority to you!

  • http://twitter.com/RedHotRussia Augis Barkov

    I find interesting the fluent formula of the Cairo Declaration (1943) according to which among the specifically mentioned territories from which Allies agreed to expel Japan, it was mentioned that…

    “Japan will also be expelled from all other territories which she has taken by violence and greed.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration

    • henryezra

      USA has the explanation to do. For Senkaku, Takeshima, and Ryukyu Islands.

  • henryezra

    This is proving that Japanese must not have its own Army and Navy (unlike its Self Defense Unit), they still dangerous for the world! On the other hand, this Takeshima island is captured when they occupied Korea, so when Korea has free, why this island didn’t included? The Sensaku islands (or Isles?) was captured when the Japanese occupied Taiwan, so when China and the world won the war, why it didn’t conclude the islands? The answer is: Thanks to USA!

  • chucky3176

    Just as I said this, over there at the Japan Today forum over a month ago, that Japan will never go through with this and bring the case to the ICJ alone. As soon as they do that, the 1965 Japan-Korea normalization treaty becomes null and void. I also said the ending of the currency swap line will do nothing to weaken S.Korea’s currency. Instead, the SK currency is strengthening too fast. Japanese are deranged to think that they have any leverage over Korea. Japan is increasingly becoming a non-factor for Korea. A lot of ordinary Koreans are now even starting to not even care about what Japan does or not do anymore because Japan is increasingly getting irrelevant to South Korea.

  • besudesu

    One thing that this thread is making clear are the perils of collective victimhood and collective memory…

  • henryezra

    Just read this blog made by a Japanese: probably paranoid one, but probably it’s true: http://book.geocities.jp/japans_conspiracy/01/p001.html#page1introduction

  • HaakonKL

    Of course the politicians are “extending” the lawsuit.
    There’s no real solution that would satisfy both parties, so they both try to play the waiting game until such a solution can be found.

  • Alice S

    Foreigners should not say things like ‘Forget the past’. I don’t know why they’re being like that. I never say a word about their disputes.

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