Defense Minister Calls Former PM ‘Traitor’ Over China Remark

Onodera Itsunori calls Hatoyama a traitor

Japanese defense minister Onodera Itsunori

Along with the recent news that the Chinese army has been told to ‘prepare for war’, it seems that the political posturing of both Japan and China is not over yet. With both nations seeing in new administrations, it’s clear that neither side is prepared to stand down at the risk of damaging their domestic influence.

Japanese defense minister Onodera Itsunori is the latest politician to enter the fray by calling former prime minister Hatoyama Yukio a ‘traitor’ on a television programme. Onodera’s remark came after Hatoyama commented to Chinese officials that the Senkaku Islands should be recognised as disputed territory, rather than Japanese territory, during his trip to China. Interestingly, Hatoyama caused further controversy this week when he apologised for the Nanjing massacre.

The two articles below are extremely short, but both garnered the most comments online when they were published, demonstrating a clear concern among some netizens over Hatoyama’s seemingly reasonable remark.

From MSN Sankei News:

Defense Minister Calls Hatoyama a ‘Traitor’

On the evening of January 17, defense minister Onodera Itsunori gave a scathing criticism of Hatoyama Yukio, who met with Chinese officials in Beijing, for his acknowledgement of the Senkaku Islands in Okinawa Prefecture as being a disputed territory between Japan and China. Onodera stated, ‘This is a huge negative for Japan. At this, China will announce to the world that there is a dispute, and form international opinion. For the first time in a long while, the word ‘traitor’ came to mind’. Onodera spoke on a BS-Fuji news programme.

Former prime minister, Hatoyama Yukio, meeting officials in China.

Former prime minister, Hatoyama Yukio, meeting officials in China. He paints the characters for ‘fraternal love’ and ‘peace’.

From Yahoo!Japan:

Defense Minister Onodera: Former Prime Minister Hatoyama is a ‘Traitor’

On the evening of January 17, defense minister Onodera Itsunori appeared on a BS-Fuji television programme, and said that ‘This is a huge negative for Japan. I shouldn’t really say this, but for a moment the word ‘traitor’ came to mind,’ strongly criticising former prime minister Hatoyama Yukio’s remark that ‘It is important to recognise that the Senkaku islands are a disputed territory’.

The defense minister showed his anxiety, saying ‘Although there is no dispute, and (Senkaku) is native Japanese territory, the Chinese will announce to the world that this is what a former Japanese prime minister thinks, and indeed world opinion will be formed as though there really is a dispute’.

Comments from Twitter:

love Japan:

Hatoyama Yukio is a true traitor! Get out of Japan! Let the whole of the Japanese people make it so that there’s no place he can go in Japan. You’ll never open your wise-cracking mouth again.

takao_idei:

Damn, so many retweets w. Still, the media are going to ignore it?”

週末起業家@山下たつや:

For the Chinese side, there’s no one better than Hatoyama to do exactly as they think he will, he was just the target they were aiming for.

ケイ ♜烏賊人♜:

I want them to arrest him, seriously. QT @vmx12f:…so, you’re saying that there’s nothing we can do about the traitor? If we leave him to it, he’ll just carrying on doing the same thing, the fool.

ratti:

Are there actually any Japanese people who don’t think that Hatoyama’s behaviour, actions or remarks during his visit weren’t traitorous? I think that it wouldn’t be an exaggeration even if you called this an act of terrorism.

やよい:

I think it would be lovely if he went to live forever on a fishing island as the lighthouse keeper. With his wife. Dove [The 'hato' of Hatoyama's name means 'dove' or 'pigeon'] can make friends with the goats, can’t he.

neologcutter:

I understand how he feels, but I don’t think it’s something he should say in public.

チリチリ:

Onodera, you said it best! Hatoyama’s absurd remark will bring harm to Japan, it’s a traitorous remark. He should be arrested for treason.

まろばし:

It’s a pretty severe thing for Onodera to say, but it’s true so it can’t be helped.

中村伊知哉:

They’ll just carry on going around apologising for things like the comfort women, the hijacking of JAL flight 472, nuclear power….

いち:

I can’t believe Hatoyama…the LDP can relax in their place.

ごはんだよ!:

Onodera’s right.

ソルティスちあき:

‘Traitor’ means ‘someone who disturbs the nation, someone who harms the nation’

yamazaki hideki:

Doesn’t seem like something someone sane would say! His behaviour has been incomprehensible since the moment ex-PM Hatoyama quit his position as a Diet member.

odoindo:

I’m so pissed off.

でぃけい:

Good job ~ヽ(‘ω’)ノ

かまねこ(1/26YTK):

It’s really awful if a politician doesn’t think of the influence his remarks will have when made in another country. Japan’s always been shit at diplomatic maneuvering.

Comments from Yahoo!Japan:

dfddedehefed(ede…)さん:

He’s exactly right. When he comes back, arrest him and imprison him immediately(ー人ー)

kuw*ta*kun(kuw…)さん:

‘Traitor’ — Agreed.

腐☆腐(mer…)さん:

Yes! Hatoyama Yukio is a traitor!

k2t0r1s2(k2t…)さん:

I feel exactly the same way.

わんたろう11111(wan…)さん:

Isn’t it obvious [that he's a traitor]!

rai*a*star*1(rai…)さん:

That idiot former Prime Minister Hatoyama, still causing trouble even though he’s quit as a Diet member.

スカイ7239(sky…)さん:

You said it well, Onodera.

全力中年!!!(beg…)さん:

China insists: It’s important to acknowledge that the Senkaku islands are disputed territory. Hatoyama insists: It’s important to acknowledge that the Senkaku islands are a disputed territory. Japanese people insist: The Senkaku islands are not a disputed territory. Hatoyama’s not Japanese.

あゆふわゆゆえあ(atu…)さん:

As Onodera said, Hatoyama’s a traitor.

よっしー(him…)さん:

I guess they can’t suspend his passport~ The sins of the Democratic Party he led are great indeed.

うたかた(ym1…)さん:

Exactly right. I want to say, don’t come back to Japan, you bastard idiot, but they have to string him up good and proper the minute he gets back.

wil*ir*6(wil…)さん:

This man is a monster. A monster who will devour Japan. This situation won’t be over just by saying ‘Hatoyama is an alien, so we don’t know what he’s thinking’ anymore. This is a serious crime, on the same level as that Asahi Shimbun reporter who faked the ‘comfort women’.

あ(juj…)さん:

So Hatoyama shows his true colours. I wish he’d just disappear with a shout of ‘Long live China!’.

azu**_903*8(azu…)さん:

This isn’t just a comment on a television programme, just as Japanese government experts say it, Hatoyama should be formally blamed. I can’t bear to see Japan demeaned any more than this.

jjj*80*78(jjj…)さん:

Sound argument. That’s how it is.

ラトロイ(tni…)さん:

Correct!!

abc(abc…)さん

He’s exactly right.

アルマイヨ(bhx…)さん:

Even if he comes back to Japan, there’s nowhere for him to go.

( Д) ゜ ゜(gpg…)さん:

He’s worse than a traitor. There’s no word to describe him.

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  • RaphaeI

    It’s not traitorous to apologize for the Nanjing Massacre (which was a horrendous event for which remorse is appropriate), or to acknowledge that the islands are disputed (which is factual). What world do these people live in?

    • ku-yao

      He’s only being called a traitor for saying the islands are disputed, not for apologizing for Nanking

      It’s
      not an unusual position to take in territorial disputes either, some
      countries don’t officially “recognize” a dispute because it implies that
      their claim may or may not be valid, which is seen as a weaker position.
      This is similar to the initial positions over the island disputes in
      the South China Sea with ASEAN before serious talks got underway. Not
      always the best diplomacy, but it’s all politics

    • hjohn5929

      well said, couldn’t agree more

    • y.m.

      the japanese are calling him a traitor because he stated the senkaku islands are “disputed” area. japan isn’t really concerned about him visiting the nanjing memorial.

    • iliketowritearticles

      “What world do these people live in?” …A non-communist one…

  • Poko

    He “poppo” is obviously a traitor. The chinese gov can easily use his comment referring to as that the japanese gov “admits” that the nanjing incident is true. But the data shown by the chinese gov have so many flaws, such as the dead people were 300,000 which is way too greater than the number of citizens living in nanjing at that time (200,000). Thats why the japanese gov denies the incident. But the chinese gov still does not show any evidence or data to support their argument.

    • dim mak

      The japanese government doesn’t deny the nanjing massacre, you asshat

      • EightNineBall

        Which makes me doubt that this “poko” person is even Japanese in the first place.

    • Ming Lee

      200,000? 300,000? What’s different? Are U showing the world how brazen your Japanese was?! This is not a simple number as 1 or 2, it’s the lifes!! Is 300,000 lifes killed by you Japanese! NOT 200,000! YOU MOTHERFUCKER!!

      It’s not difficult to understand why we hate each other so much, DIAO YU DAO (It’s our land, better you remember!!) or any of your stupid provocations, is key to your death, better we don’t open it, forget the hatred and think about the future, by sanely.

  • dim mak

    This is pretty much failure on all fronts.

    The old LDP men are just being stubborn old tards, no surprise there.

    But an apology from a liberal politician means absolutely nothing to me. This is the same problem with Murayama’s apology. How do I know it’s not just some self-loathing leftist doing everything he can to rebel against the right wingers in his country? We got plenty of scum like that in China too, just not on an official level.

    No, I’ll know Sino-Japanese relations are truly repaired when both our NATIONALISTS like each other. Sorta like our relationship with Russia’s nationalists, or Pakistan’s.

    Besides, his timing is shit. The fires are still burning from the Diaoyu islands fallout. That shit is still all over mainland news. First thing every evening newscast. Did he do this because of heightened tensions? That is a complete fucking misread. Some rage can be tamed by contrition, some rage is so overwhelming contrition will just cause distrust and suspicions of insincerity. This is the latter. Didn’t he see what happened when Sora Aoi tried the friendship thing recently? It was totally slapped down, and Chinese were very sympathetic to her bridgebuilding in the past.

    He should’ve waited till it died down. Now Global Times is already writing editorials doubting and dismissing his apology. In fact Hatoyama should’ve done this when he was in office and relations were relatively good, that would’ve been much more effective. Before the island fiasco his own countrymen might’ve been more open to it too. Now he’s gone and pissed away his first impression at the worst time possible.

    Well played Japan, well played.

    I’m not one for moralist outrage or historical butthurt, but please, get some fucking realpolitik. If you did I’m sure the old men in Zhongnanhai will oblige you more than the average Chinese citizen.

    At least that one guy is right, Japan IS very shit at diplomatic maneuvering.

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

      Nationalists by definition hate other countries. The notion that a healthy relationship involves people who hate other countries liking people from other countries who hate other countries is borderline insanity.

      The only way “nationalists” can like other nationalists is if they see themselves as brothers of the same nation—e.g., as part of a shared racial heritage rather than as coming from two separate nations. But then they’re no longer “nationalists”—they’re racists.

      • dim mak

        >nationalism means hating other countries
        This is precisely the western indoctrination that needs to be reversed and rejected by the rest of the world

        • Butsu

          I’m with you dim mak, in my country the nationalists has this wet dream of when they take over the country, and on some forums a subject that is discussed alot is what other countrys “nationalist” can you trust. And this includes people without the same heritage.

  • Reila90

    I don’t get it sometimes why Japanese really hate Chinese so much. Historically speaking, China never done anything bad to Japan. Compare to what western imperialist done to Japan from mid 19th to mid 20th century, like unequal treaty, atomic bomb, Russo-Japan war, Japanese American internment camps, and so on.
    I don’t say Japan should hate westerner more than Chinese. But it just weird how Japanese seems maliciously hate their neighbour so much.
    I mean, do China ever did a force open trade to Japan? Hell even the war in China started by Japan.

    • Mr. Ed

      The reason why Japanese people hate China so much is due to a number of factors. The main reason stems from their actions during WWII where they massacred hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians but never issued an official national apology. In fact most Japanese people deny that it even occurred. Because of this, the Chinese try to spite Japan at every turn, be it anti-Japanese rallies, riots, burning Japanese flags etc. (basically anything you can think of). And because a lot of the younger Japanese people still don’t believe that atrocities like the Nanjing Massacre or comfort women or human experimentation ever occurred, they think it’s just the Chinese harassing them for no good reason.

      • Butsu

        “In fact most Japanese people deny that it even occurred.”
        “And because a lot of the younger Japanese people still don’t believe
        that atrocities like the Nanjing Massacre or comfort women or human
        experimentation ever occurred,”

        Can you show some proof of this. I think you can’t. While some indeed does think this, we have a few amount of holocaust deniers in the world as well. And I take you have no experience or 1on1 talk with Japanese youth or older people at all.

        That is not to say that I agree with this politicians statment, nor support it. However is it well known here in Asia that China is not really the loved country, rather the opposite.

        • Reila90

          “in Asia that China is not really the loved country” Not really. Other than the countries that have dispute with China. Some of them only join the hate communist bandwagon without any valid reason.

          Also i think what Mr Ed implying is Japanese education. If people have no knowledge about their history, How they can admit the atrocities they did?

          • Rutim

            “Other than the countries that have dispute with China.”

            Tell me how many countries in SE Asia haven’t got any territorial dispute with China.

          • Reila90

            Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Myanmar, Singapore, Brunei & Timor Leste. What’s your point?

          • Rutim

            Out of those countries only Laos and Myanmar borders China. Starting Asian countries from north to South which has got disputes with China over some land (or sea) – South Korea, Japan, Taiwan (of course), Phillipines, Vietnam and, to make matters worse, there are India. Combined population of those countries is roughly the same as China. And if they’ll go with the biggest obstacle (Japan) easily can you promise that they won’t get more and more cocky in the region? I wouldn’t bet a single rupia on that.

          • Reila90

            Countries that i listed above have no real dispute. The countries who aggressively anti China to death in these arena are only Japan & Philippines. And these 2 countries very heavily relied to U.S.A.
            How’s China get cocky when this is only a border dispute? China have no desire to invade those countries whatsoever.

          • Butsu

            You also forget Chinas good relationship with Norway…oh wait, there is no relationship what so ever with Norway anymore. I don’t think anyone want to necessarily be “anti-China”, it just happens.

          • Reila90

            Nonetheless, i don’t think “isn’t the loved country in Asia” should entitled to China. There’s more complexity in this matter. Not just China that has a problem with Japan. Also what make this worse, the newly elected prime minister of Japan, Abe Shinzo, is the equivalent of a Holocaust denier.

          • Rutim

            Yeah, both Koreas have also problems with Japan. And what’s up with Abe being ‘Holocaust denier’?

          • Reila90

            I’m talking about unit 731 and Japanese war crimes.

          • Guest

            Oh yeah, all those countries with China disputes are just on the anti-communit bandwagon.

            Like Vietnam.

          • Reila90

            They have a dispute too with China. Read my comment clearly.

      • Rutim

        “The main reason stems from their actions during WWII where they massacred hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians but never issued an official national apology.”

        The first part true while the rest of of it like ‘they didn’t apologize’ is false of course. Have you ever read the official statements from Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs? I’ll translate it for you dumbasses (and it should be written under every article regarding Chinese-Japanese articles I think):

        from http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/area/taisen/qa/08.html

        1. Japanese government thinks that the negation of killing and looting civilians in Nanking is impossible.

        2. However, Japanese government can’t support any number given by various theories.

        3. Japan frankly recognizes the deeds bringing pain and damage made during the past colonial and agressions made especially to Asian people , always remembers it and APOLOGIZES. Also let there won’t be another period like that and let the countries walk the way of peace.

        That’s OFFICIAL statement supported by almost every Japanese (aside from individuals denying it).

        “Because of this, the Chinese try to spite Japan at every turn, be it anti-Japanese rallies, riots, burning Japanese flags etc.”

        That’s also fueled by the Communist Party. Remember how the anti-communist riots broke up in Chine in the 80′s and how they dealt with that? That’s how any government unrecognised protest would end. That’s pure anger and lack of common sense. Or maybe you support throwing stones at Japanese when they are in Beijing?

        “And because a lot of the younger Japanese people still don’t believe that atrocities like the Nanjing Massacre or comfort women or human experimentation ever occurred, they think it’s just the Chinese harassing them for no good reason.”

        You don’t know any Japanese youngster at all, do you?

  • Genxi

    It’s disturbing that the Japanese netizens feel no remorse for all their war criminal acts done in WWII. Though I must envy their unconditional pride/nationalism for their country.

    • dim mak

      Eh, you go to Japan then tell me
      They’ve got a nasty socialist/marxist streak, especially in academia

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

        You’ve got a rather perverted chain of logic. Socialists/Marxists would be *pro* China (“Viva la proletariat! Kill the filthy capitalists!”). Anti-socialists / anti-Marxists would be *anti* China (you know, the “commies”?). And yet you simultaneously condemn Japan for being socialist/Marxist *and* anti-China (aka, “anti-commie”)?

        You seem to be unaware that nationalism in China is associated with the left. *They’re* the ones still playing the communist card. The other side are the pro-democracy “splittist” dissidents who get accused of being anti-China.

        • dim mak

          Ergo socialists and Marxists in Japan suck up to outsiders and criticize everything in their own country, like they do everywhere

          That’s what I’m trying to tell genxi

          I don’t see what Chinese nationalism has to do with this
          Few leftists outside of China would think the neo Maoists are real leftists if they got to know them

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            You’ve been watching too much Fox News.

          • dim mak

            compelling argument matt
            i don’t even have a tv

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            You watch it in your dreams, subconsciously.

          • dim mak

            is this what you resort to when you run out of stuff to say? fox news isn’t even nationalism, just conservative idiocy

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            aka, nationalism

          • dim mak

            ^this is what westerners actually believe

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            Sounds like you might want to consider living in Europe.

            Plenty of nationalists there, and they all hate each other.

            You’ll fit right in!

          • dim mak

            why would i do that

            i want asian nationalists to unite, the fuck with yurop

            and take your liberal/conservative binary and crawl back to murrikka

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            So you want to eliminate national borders and subjugate national self-autonomy to a transnational unified empire.

            You’re not a nationalist. You’re an imperialist. European nationalists are trying to disintegrate the European Union while you’re trying to enslave all Asians under an Asian Union. Well, at least I can rest easy, knowing your Napoleonesque dream will never come true.

          • dim mak

            are you stupid or something

            nationalists != nations

            look at this fucking idiot, this guy is the precise reason why asians should be extremely skeptical of western ideas

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            Nationalists support the autonomy of nations.

            Not the loss of national autonomy to transnational governing bodies.

            Did you not get the memo?

          • dim mak

            what is wrong with you? are you like 16 years old using big words you don’t understand?

            nationalists are people, not countries
            nobody is talking about giving up our nationhood for a transnational government

            so what the fuck are you going on about?

            jesus christ

            remind me not to take anything you say seriously from now on

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            Well, I apologize for discombobulating you.

          • dim mak

            your youtube channel is also full of bad videos

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            So is your web browsing history, but I won’t tell.

          • dim mak

            there’s nothing wrong with some horse porn

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            There is when they’re dead.

          • dim mak

            it was legal in the country it was filmed

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            Not true. The poor horse was underage.

          • Ming Lee

            I admire your patience, Matt.

          • poko

            “i want asian nationalists to unite, the fuck with yurop”

            That would have been the best case scenario about 80 years ago…. But it’s too late to happen.

          • 白鬼子看不懂

            I’d love to see a China/India merger, just for the population record books.

            CHINDIA: HALF THE WORLD.

          • Pid

            You should consider yourself a holiday in EU, because it’s untrue.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            I’ve already had a holiday in EU, thankyouverymuch. It was very nice.

    • hun

      Why should they? the ones born after the war has nothing to do with it. Its like me being viet telling chinese people to feel remorseful about ruling vietnam for 1000 years even though the current china has nothing to do with it. its asinine.

    • Jahar

      I feel no remorse for the war criminal acts done by any people in any war. Any criminal acts at all. Should I? Even if that person and I are from the same Country? City? Planet?

      • EightNineBall

        Well, you shouldn’t since this is an issue that doesn’t pertain to you. The current generation of Japanese have nothing to do with WW2 so they shouldn’t be punished for what their ancestors did. Just how much further from this issue are you?

        • Jahar

          This is my point. It pertains to no one. No one alive is responsible for any of that. Feeling remorse for something you didn’t do can be a little difficult. And unnecessary

  • Quentin

    Reading these comments, I finally understand why the Chinese still haven’t forgiven the Japanese for what they did during the second world war. Apparently it’s traitorous to apologize for the Nanjing Massacre? lmao.

    • poko

      The point is that the incident is still arguable in Japan, and Chine still refuses to participate into discussion.

      By the way, still no US president comes to Hiroshima or Nagasaki to make an apology yet. Why?

      • dim mak

        Because it’s not arguable anywhere else in the world, the evidence is overwhelming
        Hell it’s not even a disputed fact in serious Japanese academics
        People like Higashinakano and Hata are weird fringe nutters shunned by their own colleagues

        Why not just admit it? nothing bad will happen you know

      • Quentin

        Because the atom bombs dropped on Japan were necessary to end the war. The Japanese refused to surrender before that, even though the Germans already did.

        • poko

          Isn’t this a scientific reason to drop two different type of bombs in two locations?

          In terms of the number, this is also Against Humanity, I think…?

          Anyway, we are not mooching off the us anymore like some countries doing. because we know that the partner is logically understandable and the future relationship can be constructed by efforts.

          • Reila90

            At the end of WW2, there’s only 2 options for Japan to lose. Lose to U.S or to USSR. Now i ask you, you want Japan became similar like North Korea? or a free market based economy like Japan today?

          • poko

            I won’t talk about fantasy history.

          • Reila90

            You make no sense. This isn’t fantasy. You don’t need a scientific explanation for political matter.

      • 白鬼子看不懂

        Plenty of Americans feel remorse about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But if you think it was unjustified, read about Operation Downfall, which was the plan to subdue Japan before the bombs were finished. Estimated losses? Millions on both sides.

        Not fantasy history, the official plan in place that would start in the October 1945. The US made 500,000 Purple Hearts just to prepare for the first 90 days of casualties. 68 years later we still haven’t given them all away yet.

        You tell me which would have been a happier end to the war.

        (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall)

    • Rutim

      Those were the words about Senkaku which made him ‘traitor’ not Nanjing if you can’t read properly. And the words would be enough in any country around the world.

      • besudesu

        You’re right, Rutim. As I replied elsewhere on this thread, Hatoyama was called a ‘traitor’ in relation to the Senkaku dispute, not the Nanjing massacre.

      • Quentin

        Why does the article say “Hatoyama caused further controversy this week when he apologised for the Nanjing massacre” then? Also, the segment linked says “The Japanese government released a statement that the words of Hatoyama
        are clearly against the stand of the government and that it regrets the
        remarks made by former prime ministers of the country” after he apologized for the Nanjing Massacre.

        Clearly you’re the one who needs to read properly

        • Rutim

          Quentin, you’re stubborn and can’t read. And you’re stubborn.

          That’s editorial to the article (author’s attitude, maybe he should watch his word better for the next time as he probably feels now not much off from Japanese government offcial ;)). Not the translated part. After ‘Murayama danwa’ (‘Maruyama’s comments’ – named after Tomiichi Murayama, Japanese ex-PM paper made for 50th anniversary of war’s end) no Japanese government officials denied the Japanese crimes of the WWII… So those words can’t be controversial. But when Japanese ex-PM, like Hato, goes to China to support Chinese requests for Senkaku he would be called traitor (I haven’t heard of ex-French PM going to Germany and claiming that Alsace is German) in any country around the world.

        • besudesu

          The article introduction says that because Hatoyama’s Nanjing apology did cause some controversy online. The Japan Daily Press Article was meant to provide some context, but what you haven’t realised, Quentin, is that that article links to a Yahoo! article which makes it much clearer that the Japanese government, to the best of my knowledge, has only ever released a statement over the Senkaku remarks, and *not* Hatoyama’s apology. If this remains unclear to you, you can see this article from Japan Today. I am removing the Japan Daily Press link, since it is obviously not making the situation clear.

        • tom

          that’s because the western media likes to cause more drama within the news.

    • kk88

      hatoyama visiting the nanking memorial isn’t the reason why the japanese are calling him a traitor, that doesn’t matter at all. it’s the fact that hatoyama claimed the senkaku islands as “disputed” area.

  • 白鬼子看不懂

    East Asia really needs to get over the “face” concept if they ever want to live in real coexistence with each other. People just act like belligerent children because they fear losing face by being honest and reasonable. When self-criticism or nuanced self-assessment is called “treason” (both in Japan and in China nowadays) you basically just let the screaming kids run the country while the adults in the room have to shut up.

    This is the real reason that Europe has nursed its wounds from WW II while Asia has not. That and a system of ancestor worship where your dead grandmother’s honor is worth more than peace and stability for your grandchildren.

    • dim mak

      not gonna happen
      asians are too proud and paranoid
      it’s both a strength and a weakness depending on situation

      to try and take it from us would probably be diastrous
      the only solution is to be collectively proud and nationalistic instead of pointing our ego at each other, like we do now

      • 白鬼子看不懂

        But how can you be collectively nationalistic when you belong to different nations?

        Unless you mean some sort of pan-Asian nationalism, which sounds kind of scarily like an idea of racial supremacy to be honest. . .

        • dim mak

          Why not? There could be a racial element to it, no doubt

          But would you accuse Pan-Arab, Pan-African, Pan-Turkic etc. nationalism of the same thing?

          Besides, that’s not really the point

          Nationalists in China and Russia like each other, and we’re certainly not the same race or cultural sphere

          If we could have that kind of relationship amongst Asians, that would be good enough for me

          • Ming Lee

            Your stubbornness is paranoid, dim mak, if the Chinese has the same nationalists thought, Japan’s got no customer here.

            I am a Chinese, and we’d never crazy like you, you Japanese are the most rigid, inflexible, obsessive people I’ve ever met.

            God gift you the incredible creativity on science, engineerig, electronic, and comic…, but no normal intelligence.

          • dim mak

            What? I’m Chinese living in Canada
            I don’t think you even understand my posts

          • Ming Lee

            My apologize, your words made us confusion, the Chinese has the glory of our country, but not stupid nationalist as you said. China is world’s China. Only the Japan thought it’s Japan’s Janpan.

            I am not sure the above comments from Japanese were their real thought or not? If so, obviously they haven’t been aware of how bad the condition they are facing. Finally, even this is a farce again, the relationship is diffcult to repair, at least a long time in next.

            The Chinese people are stop buying Japanese products now, it’s puzzling what they are doing.

          • 白鬼子看不懂

            If said pan-Arab/-African/-Turkic movement tried to define their race and culture as superior to others, then yes I would certainly accuse them of the same thing.

            Do you really like each other, or do you just both hate the same people? There’s a difference.

          • EightNineBall

            I think he meant Asians liking each other. Nothing wrong with what he said. Respect for neighbors is a good thing.

  • chucky3176

    There you go, Japan apologized again, and it’s in the books again.

    But what won’t be recorded in the books is that the one who made the apology obviously just spoke for himself, because the rest of Japan certainly didn’t endorse it, and in fact, says he’s a traitor.

    But you watch later on, when some apologists will come along again and say Japan already apologized for Nanjing massacre in 2013, so why are the Chinese not forgiving Japan?

    Of course, when you point out all this, the apologists will say Japanese people didn’t bad mouth the apology in English forums, so Japanese must be really sorry. See no evil, hear no evil.

    It’s the same predictable pattern.

    • dim mak

      But that’s when we point out the contradictions from nationalists and other denialist politicians, which we do all the time

      Besides, the opposite is also true

      How do you know the rest of Japan doesn’t endorse it? What’s the % threshold before it becomes genuine? This goes back to the old nationalists are representative of Japan while the remorseful are just lone individuals

      Not a helpful dichotomy

      And the statements in the past were made in official capacity, this one isn’t

      • chucky3176

        I wish there would be a study to find out what the Japanese really think about this. I have a good sneaking suspicion but I can’t prove it. What I do know is this. The Japanese government has put out ads newspapers in America, in New Jersey, describing the comfort women as frauds who were prostitutes. In response, the New York introduced resolutions to both houses of the state legislature calling on the Japanese government to recognize and apologize for what they call “one of the largest cases of human-trafficking in the 20th century”. Now the Japanese have sent thousands of emails to New York, and they have signed a petition demanding to stop this resolution. I’m sorry but this nation has never shown they take responsibility for anything and they never will. They deserve fully what they’ve gotten so far. And I don’t think I’m the crazy one here.

        • dim mak

          I thought that resolution passed a long time ago

          This thing right

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_House_Resolution_121

          It wasn’t a move by the Japanese government, but conservative politicians acting as private citizens

          In the same vein, what would you say about something like the Asian Women’s Fund?

        • Butsu

          Yeah, and you have have South Korean do the same. Newspapers, what was it more Times Square? American-Korean politicans pushing Korean intrests in school books etc.Heck, once every month you have 10 people standing and protesting about this where I live in Japan. It goes both ways and both countries behaves like fucking children in all matters concerning WW2 (that goes for China too).

          • 白鬼子看不懂

            Like I said, in cultures where people value “face” over pragmatism, politicians have to behave like children over things like this. Compromising too much can lose face, so everyone has to act belligerent and hide their actual feelings about the situation.

            As long as people care more about the honor and glory of their ancestors than about the peace and security of their grandchildren’s lives, the sad parade will continue.

            If your great-grandfather was a war criminal, you can still defend him as a human being while condemning the things he did in war. War makes normal people do crazy things.

            If your ancestors were victims of the war, stop using their suffering for your own revenge fantasies against innocent modern-day people.

            In my experience with people who’ve lived through terrible wars, most of them just want their kids to live peaceful lives that don’t involve the horrible things they had to go through.

            If their kids wanted to go start a new war because of their “honor,” they would probably slap the shit out of the kid and tell them to get married, get a good job, have a family, and live the peaceful life that was stolen from them.

            You didn’t suffer it yourself, so you have no reason to act so self-righteous. The people living now didn’t do it–the people who did it are all dead, or will soon be dead.

            Let the dead rest in peace. Stop digging them up and littering your propaganda with their corpses.

    • besudesu

      You’re conflating two things there, Chucky. He was not called a traitor for apologising for Nanjing. He was called a traitor for admitting that the Senkaku Islands are indeed a disputed territory, which is an important political issue in terms of domestic support for the government. The defense minister had to take a hard-line, because this is part of why Abe’s government got into power.

      • Justin_kBANG

        you go girl

    • Pid

      I think because he doesn’t represent Japan anymore. Only if the president acknowledges it and say it explicitly, then China should forgive and move on.

      Maybe they should do it right now, with the royal Japanese family. Then have China attest and acknowledge their apology. Then move on together – just imagine all the time, effort they can save and put this into business…

  • linette lee

    友愛和平 He wrote that? He has nice calligraphy. I like this dude.

    • besudesu

      Yup, that’s what he wrote. Actually, I think this was at the meeting where he as said something like ‘As a Japanese, I take responsibility for Nanjing, and apologise from the bottom of my heart’ [probably paraphrased].

  • Ming Lee

    Japs

    • wadawa

      chinks

      • carmouflagger

        Thais

  • yamaguchi

    Former Prime Minister Hatoyama worthy called a hero of peace, only people stupid and crafty who call it traitors , indeed Senkaku is a region in china are robbed by the Japanese

  • Cleo

    Yukio Hatoyama doesn’t move without permission from Akihito. He did this to breach the boycott of the weakest minded consumers who really yearn for certain Japanese products and who would be emboldened by just such an act of dishonesty. However, Mrs. Clinton has cancelled the melting effects of his Nanjing visit (so rude of the Japanese to even enter this country nevermind the Southern Capital) because Mrs. Clinton has said that China must not undermine Japanese administration of our Diaoyutai. This is meaningless in a war context but it is meaningful in terms of hardening the hearts of the boycotters. I actually felt my chest stiffening when I read the news.

  • Pid

    One tries to strengthen its relationship, while the other only stirs hate by
    calling him a traitor to his country. I really wonder how many Chinese or Japanese
    people hate each other, because I’m sure the hatred exists in those who
    experienced the war and it is played down to its relatives and kids. But those
    people didn’t experience and are therefore prejudiced by its stereotypes. And
    these kind of believes aren’t that strong – if they ever meet a good hearted
    Chinese or Japanese guy, I’m sure (or I hope at least) that they realize it is
    all played by politics.

    Take the situation in Europe, nowadays the German, Dutch, French people get along with each other. Nobody spit in each other’s faces, although some jokes can be made, but it’s all trivial and they respect each other.

    They should stimulate nationalism in good way – love your country and its culture,
    but don’t hate or have grudges on each other based on stereotypes or prejudices.
    Instead of that, try to learn from each other and enjoy each other’s cultures.
    It makes the world much prettier…

    • Rutim

      “Take the situation in Europe, nowadays the German, Dutch, French people get along with each other. Nobody spit in each other’s faces, although some jokes can be made, but it’s all trivial and they respect each other.”

      Well, jokes are jokes, but when Chinese throw rocks at Japanese it isn’t anymore fun, is it?

      • Pid

        True, I can’t agree with you more.

        However there are so many people living in China and Japan. You always have uneducated people. I assume most protests and such are initiated by not so well educated folks.

    • dk2020

      I totally agree with you .. I want peace in East Asia ..

      I think its more like British relations with Argentina nowadays thats more comparable,its just constant bickering back and forth over the Falklands and war has broken out because of it so the resentment remains ..

      • Pid

        Yes dk2020, I agree with u. If they form alliance such as EU, then they could be quite powerful. They both will benefit more (set aside their grudges). I also believe the media should help the stimulation. Instead of negative news, try to redirect the light into something more positive.

        • dk2020

          It’s the nationalistic right wing agenda which keep in mind are all in power in East Asia to keep the public in fear for their own political gains ,, much like the Republicans and what Bush jr did with the war on terror in the US. Hopefully more liberal and moderate leaders will come to power before somethin stupid like war breaks out in East Asia. I’m thinking most of it is just huffing and puffing though, going to war is not practical and would hurt the fragile economy ..

          • Pid

            Too bad I don’t know much about the politics there, so it’s hard to comment. I did thought that the current president of China did studied in USA? I believe when people do overseas exchanges, it helps them to govern countries (little big more insight in policy etc)

    • EightNineBall

      I’m not sure how many Chinese or Japanese truly hate each other, but one thing is true. Sometimes, even the most rabid of nationalists and extremists show a little humanity when it is arises. I was reading one of these forums, I think it was japantoday, and there was one Japanese user who made some comment along the lines of how when it comes to a disaster, politics takes a rear end and that doing the right thing naturally takes place. She also believed the PRC would have done the same thing for the Japanese had they situations been reversed. It’s not uncommon for youth of both nations to get along very well, and I’ve also read some comments from some Chinese who’ve mentioned that outside of politics and history, exchanges and interactions between both parties are extremely friendly and close.

      I think the situation in Europe is very good and should be followed by the East Asian nations when the time is right. And my experiences with most Japanese seems to be that they have a yearning that all 3 Asian countries would co-operate and come to terms. I think that’s what most of the Chinese youth want as well. However, as we know, it’s always the rightist who have the biggest say in things.

      You’re suggestion is very true, pride in one’s own culture, yet respect and love for the neighbor should be fostered by both these countries. While there are many that wouldn’t like to see a united and reconciled East Asia (for various obvious reasons too), many more do. It’s up to the three countries to show the world that they want to get along and no one should stop them. They also need to prove that this is beneficial for the whole world.

      But the first thing that must be done is for China to get things and priorities right.

      • Pid

        If there were more people like you then I’m sure they will feel united haha :)

        The lefties will only get chance to rule when the land is at its most prosperous age. Otherwise I think rightits usually have overhand and they are more strict towards outsiders.

        Just guessing 70% of the Japanese or Chinese people don’t care – they focus on own ambition or living, 20% want to improve and 10% are scumbags :P

        • EightNineBall

          No, no, we need more people like 9nine and their management :)

          Perhaps something of that figure is quite right. My general impression of younger Chinese people is that they like Japanese. I’ve read some articles on this very website and the general Japanese comments don’t seem to be so full of hate. I do know that even the most extreme Chinese nationalist have respect for Japan and the Japanese, which is quite incredible given

          One thing I do know is that both countries tend to be insular and inward looking. So reaching out is a little hard, but I’m sure it can be achieved.

          Besudesu was right. Branding Hatoyama a traitor was based on his remarks about the Senkaku/Diaoyu.

          http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20130119a7.html

          Either way, I can’t speak much if the man is a traitor or not, I do know what he said doesn’t serve the interest of his country from a nationalist standpoint.

          Japan’s current position is there is no dispute over the Senkaku Islands.

      • Reila90

        “While there are many that wouldn’t like to see a united and reconciled East Asia”

        Who? U.S.A?

  • few

    the comments here are just loaded with chinks. hey, go back to where you come from you chinks.

    • EightNineBall

      Of course there are some Chinese here. This is an issue between Japan and China. What do you expect? The more interesting thing though, is that there are far more westerners and people of ethnicities other than East Asian here. Many are just pouring gas and attempting to start an unnecessary flame war.

      Speaking of which, why don’t you tell us your nationality, coward? Because it sure as hell isn’t Japanese. Now go back to whatever country you came from and forums that actually “involve” you.

      • Pid

        His reaction is just example of those uncivilized folk. His nationality doesn’t matter, they are the same haha..

        • EightNineBall

          Yes. And he is also forgetting what this article is about. I asked him his nationality because he conveniently left it out, like 100% of the anti-Chinese, Japanese, Korean trolls “loading” sites such as these. Yet are quick to accuse someone of being Chinese and so forth even when it obviously isn’t the case.

          Usually, most East Asian nationalists don’t bother to hide their identity. I think it’s a matter of pride, something most disgruntled, trouble making expats here have non of. I feel bad for the many here that are in fact genuinely good people.

  • Amir Fahran

    Both Japan and China are evil, but China is GREATER threat. I think Nanjing was bad, yes, but China today is WORSE.

  • Decent

    Yukio Hatoyama is a decent person. Should have been prime minister longer.

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